Category: News Feeds

Editor’s note: This year the Chilkat Valley News partnered with KHNS on its election coverage in addition to hosting two candidate forums. A playlist of these profiles, as they are posted, can be found here.

This interview transcript has been edited for clarity and grammar.

Rashah McChesney: Zeke Frank, welcome. Hello.

Zeke Frank:  Thanks, Rashah. Good to be here.

Great. Thank you for taking the time to meet me here. I want to just first ask you what’s on your hat.

Oh, well, this is Vote for Zeke in a maybe familiar to some font from a kind of quirky movie back in the day, and yeah, it’s about the extent of my material campaigning.

No, no lawn signs. You’ve not done any lawn signs? 

No lawn signs. I think I wanted something that was more permanent. You know, it’s not going to end up in a landfill. Maybe it’ll end up in someone’s closet, but on a sunny day they can put it on and think back on that time Zeke ran for the planning commission.

And I, you were showing me earlier that you put the caveat language, the paid for by yes on the inside of the bill? 

Yes, they are APOC [ Alaska Public Offices Commission] compliant. 

Did you know what APOC compliance was when you first made those hats, or did you catch up with that?

I mean, it kind of brought to light some questions about what that means. So yeah, that ended up going inside the headband.

Yeah, I’m delighted with that.

Yes.

Well, I’m glad that we sat down. I was hoping to just kind of pick your brain a little bit about why you’re running for planning commission. So let’s just start with that real basic one. Why are you running?

Well, so I guess I can get into a little bit of background about myself. So I grew up in Haines, I’m a Haines High School graduate. I graduated in 2014, and then afterwards worked my way into the maritime industry. So for the most part, I’ve worked for a company called Lindblad Expeditions. They operate expedition cruise vessels, you know, ecotourism. They have ships that operate all over the world, and I’ve had a focus on our U.S. ships for the past decade. So [I] worked my way up there. I eventually sailed as chief engineer on one of our newer U.S. flagships. [I] did that for a few years, stepped away for some personal projects, and then kind of worked my way back in as a project manager in  shipyards doing project planning in advance of shipyards. I dealt with a vessel refit, a lot of capital expenditure. A lot of, basically,  maintenance planning and then this past year I transitioned to an actual full time position –  that was all contract – a full time position as a ship superintendent for two and now three of our U S flagged ships.

What does a ship superintendent do?

That’s a great question. I get that a lot, actually.

Not a title you hear that often. 

Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. Well, kind of an antiquated title or a similar title that was more common just a decade or two was a port engineer.

Okay.

So it’s a little bit similar to that. Basically the one sentence answer to that is keep the ship functioning and revenue generating. So that’s not as simple as “oh we need this work done right now. It’s strategic. It’s “well what regulations are going to pop up in the next few years that we should get ahead of,” “how can we improve efficiency?” Whether that’s operational efficiency, what the crew are doing on board, or or the efficiency most people think about fuel efficiency. So, yeah, a ship superintendent, you’re in charge of all forecasted maintenance, any kind of dry dock planning, any kind of regulatory changes that come up, you need to be aware of and collaborate with other stakeholders to make sure that it happens and whatever changes need to happen do happen effectively. And beyond that, I manage the engine departments on board, so I manage a team of about 24 across the three ships that I currently am superintendent over. 

And that’s a job that’s had you based in Haines?

Yeah, I work remotely, and so yeah, I’m here at my remote office as much as possible. I do get called to the ships on occasion, especially when we’re in Southeast Alaska. It’s literally just a quick hop over to Juneau or maybe a hop to Sitka or something like that if if I’m needed or if we have a new engineer who comes aboard and I want to meet them and give them some type of training or if there’s any kind of friction that needs to be settled on board,  I like to be present. I think that it’s pretty difficult to lead from behind a screen and it’s much much easier to connect with people face to face. 

Okay. And when did you decide that filling your time like that working from home and things wasn’t enough? You wanted to also pack it with planning commission things.

I feel like I’ve been a part of this community, but maybe a little bit more behind the scenes. I have some property out the road that I spend most of my time at.

How far out the road?

It’s actually at Chilkat Lake.

Okay. Are you working remotely from Chilkat Lake?

Yeah. So it’s definitely very, it’s been a game changer, Starlink has, and I think that many people around the state and any rural areas know that. But yeah, obviously we’re completely off grid out there, and so just putting up a dish and paying a monthly fee has been pretty convenient. Beyond that, I’ve wanted to essentially just get more involved in a way that I could see. I wanted to take the opportunity to utilize the skills that I’ve developed over the past decade in my career path to the betterment of this community, and I mean, I think forward-thinking, that’s a big part of my job. 

Well, as a planning commissioner, you’re making decisions that will impact the future of this community, and these are decisions that people my age are going to be living with [in] 2030, 2050, years down the line, and so you need to be very conscientious and really think deeply about a lot of these decisions. And of course, some decisions aren’t going to be as heavy-handed as that. But it all – every … okay when you’re building a house right out of brick, every little brick that you use to build every one of those walls turns into the structure that someone’s going to eventually live in or work in or whatever. Well, every decision that comes across the assembly or the planning commission is one of those bricks, and some of them hold more weight than others. 

And had you been sort of watching planning commission meetings or watching assembly meetings, like where did you start to? When did you start to come to understand how these elected bodies play a role in our daily lives?

Well, I think the CVN’s been a pretty valuable source for that.

I did not ask him to do that. 

I’m not a paid sponsor here. Then, yeah, I have listened in on some planning commission meetings, and of course, in advance of this, I wanted to see a little bit more about how that decision making process goes. But, I will have a lot to learn about these processes, and I’m not going to hide that. I haven’t been very involved so far, but I want to change that, and I think this is a great place to start. And I wish that more young people were willing to put themselves out there and do something like this.

Do you feel like you have the sort of time and capacity to put into kind of digging into some of these meatier decisions? 

Yeah, I do feel I have that time and capacity. I mean, technically, I work a 40-hour work week. Sometimes that is not the case if things are happening. But  I don’t sleep the other hours of the day. I have the time to put forward, or dig in and take community input. And review Title 18, see how any of these potential decisions align with our comprehensive plan. So I do feel I have the time and the bandwidth to take on the planning commission.

Have you read the comprehensive plan?

I’ve read the executive summary and I’ve parsed the comprehensive plan. I haven’t read it in in its entirety yet, but

Well, other candidates have told me, and I think experiencing Haines – I moved here in 2024 – pretty often, we refer to these big documents like the comprehensive plan or you know borough code, and I did try to sit down and just sort of read through big chunks of the code that I knew were coming up at assembly all the time, but I think that can be kind of a heavy endeavor. I’m curious, you know, did you start going through Title 18 or go through the comprehensive plan? Like, like, what’s been your process for kind of getting a handle on these big things? 

Yeah, I think I’ve done a lot of Title 18 review, and I mean, yeah it’s code. It may come off as dense, but I mean, I think I was pretty amazed at how easy it is to navigate on our borough website. But yeah, it’s definitely as I’ve gone through it, I’ve looked at past projects that have happened here in town, and I’ve thought about, “oh, how did how did the the commission at the time come to the decision that that conditional use permit was was was valid or within the guidelines of Title 18?”

So I think for me, kind of applying what I found in there to projects that have maybe been controversial in the past, or all of these different discussions that I’ve just been around and I’ve heard people talk about was a better way to connect with it. But yeah, I mean, for my job, I deal with CFRs a lot. Chapter 46, the Code of Federal Federal Regulations for our listeners here. 

So the U.S. Coast Guard has primary oversight of the U.S. flag vessels that I manage, and so knowing how to read and how to find the regulations that apply the most is a critical aspect of my job, and I’ll say the CFRs are far more dense than Title 18 is, so which is good. I mean, I think  there’s a lot more nuance and and minutia when you’re talking about something as vague as ships all over the world, but yeah. So I think that  code and regulations don’t scare me. It’s nice actually. It’s nice to have that kind of … someone already made this decision for me, and I just need to see if this aligns and it’s a guideline, of course, and and well, maybe guideline is not the right word. It’s just cut and dry. It is what it is, you know?

Yeah? I’ve heard that from some candidates in the past, and I think at both the assembly and the commission level, and I’m curious. I think it’s never as simple. Well, that’s not true. Never is not the right word. Sometimes it is as simple as saying, “Is this thing allowed in this place? Is this use something that the code allows for? But I think a lot of people have come to realize that in some places we don’t have permits for that kind of use, or the code is incomplete, or we just ran into something a few months ago where there were actually sort of two competing portions of code, and we realized, oh, something here has to be adjusted. And I, I’m sort of curious how you approach navigating a situation when it isn’t cut and dry, when there isn’t a “step one, step two, step three, boom, here’s the permit.” 

Well, I would say that if so, I mean, when a decision needs to be made at the planning commission, it’s “the code is the code at that moment,” right? There’s no changing that. There’s no bending it. There’s nothing you can do to make the code align with the decision you want to see happen. Like a condition use permit: there are some items in there that are a little bit subjective [in the] requirements for for a conditional use permit.  And so, in my opinion, a planning commissioner should be a human calculator to a certain degree, right? You’ve got this equation, all right? Is it in line with Title 18? Yes, but maybe there’s some subjectivity in some facets of whatever is being presented. So okay, how does that align with our comprehensive plan? And beyond that, it’s really, really important to get community input. I think beyond anything, we need to make sure that we are well. First and foremost, it needs to be legal, right? That’s the cut and dry aspect of it. But like you said, yeah, some things aren’t just a yay or a nay. It’s there could be some opinion that’s that’s put into play there …

Or at the very least, there’s subjectivity when interpreting what a shall versus a may versus…

Exactly and so yeah, I mean that’s essentially what a planning commissioner does. You’re interpreting code, and you’re presenting your interpretation of that code. But beyond all that you need to be willing to listen to others in the community. I think that someone always has an opinion about something.

In Haines? 

Yeah. Everyone’s opinion has something to add to the equation or to the conversation, everyone has their own viewpoints, and those viewpoints are the result of many different aspects of their life and their experiences, and they all add something of value. And so you can’t just write off any opinion right off the bat. So yeah, I think that you need to be as objective as possible. But when there is subjectivity, does it align with the comprehensive plan, our community’s, basically, vision for the future, and what is community input on, in particular, people most impacted by those decisions?

You grew up here, but were you sort of around and kind of paying attention when the planning commission became an elected body?

I mean, I heard about it. Yes, and, yeah I mean, I think there are pros and cons, right? And I mean that’s why there’s a ballot measure. There’s never a ballot measure without there being pros and cons to it.

When I first moved here in 2024, I thought it was going to be really interesting to cover. It’s actually one of the things that I identified as, “oh, I’m stoked to go to and write about this elected planning commission,” because in these other communities that I’ve lived in in Alaska, land use planning is sometimes ends up in front of a planning commission that’s been appointed and has one particular point of view. Maybe it’s like all realtors or it’s all heavy industry folks or something. And it felt like Haines was doing something sort of dramatically different. And I’m curious now that you’ve been reading about what a planning commission does and thinking about the sort of future that it, the role that it plays in the future. Do you think it’s a good idea for it to be elected? 

Yeah, I think if you want to get a good representative or representation of the community you would … It’s a better representation of the community as an elected body, in my opinion. When you have appointment up to the mayor, like you said, you’re going to have a little bit more a group that maybe aligns with a certain you goal more so than a hodgepodge of folks from all different walks of life. But like I said, there are pros and cons. I think that it’s important in a planning commission to keep it as apolitical as possible, and by making people run, you do invite some type of you politicize it to a certain degree, But yeah, I at this point in time I think that it is good to have an elected commission. I mean, I think we’re in the process right now. You know what? This has only been a few years. 

Exactly.

I think for me I would have to see where it goes, and perhaps we don’t have an elected planning commission after this upcoming election, so maybe we won’t get a very good data set for it. But as far as its impact on land use in this community I personally couldn’t say I really have the visibility to what that impact might be.

The jury’s still out? 

Yeah, I think it’s something I’ll need to think about a little bit more. I mean, got a few weeks to come up with a decision on that.

Okay, I know you’ve never been on an elected body before.

Yes. 

But I’m curious, like one thing I’ve noticed is that there’s sometimes tension between how the elected planning commission and the elected assembly make decisions on individual permits or you know settlements from permits and things. I’m just curious, like how you would go about navigating that conflict or that you know what your conflict resolution skills are, particularly because both bodies are elected, right? So there’s not an easy answer there. 

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think with with any conflict, it’s the result of two things: either assumptions that have been made or a lack of communication, and so breaking down those two barriers being willing to have a conversation with someone who you who you may not see eye-to-eye with is something that I have done many times. It’s something that I think is incredibly useful in making any kind of progress towards a common goal. At the end of the day, everyone who’s serving in an elected position in Haines has one common goal: the success of this community. What that is, or what those people think is success, may vary, there’s no doubt about that. But, at the end of the day, we love this place and we want to make it better. And so, without having these conversations and talking through things in a calm manner, and keeping the heat down without doing that, yeah, you hit a wall. So, I would say in the past, I’ve dealt with a lot of conflict resolution managing a handful of people, and you know on ships, things get pretty feisty because you’re in tight spaces. You have to see the same person over and over. There’s no getting away from them. 

What I’ve found that works is really just having a cup of coffee and talking about it. So now, obviously, we’re talking about something very different here. But at the end of the day, we’re all people, and I think that just leveling with each other is the best way that we can find some type of common ground. And once you are planted on common ground, you can walk towards something. But yeah, there needs to be compromise. And some people say compromise means no one’s happy. Well, it means you’re better off than you were without anything happening at all.

I’m curious, was there one specific sort of issue that made you think, “Oh, I’m going to run for planning commission,” or what was the thing that sort of tipped you over the edge to think that you should step in and sort of throw that hat in the ring?

Yeah. I mean, I have a pretty strong maritime focus, just based on where I’ve been the past decade or a little over a decade, and I think that I want to see our community support what I see as a very renewable and sustainable industry, and that’s our fishermen. At this point, I have friends who I grew up with, went to high school with, etc. They’ve been on waitlists for stalls for years, and it’s not… my intention here is not to come across as if I have an agenda. I really don’t, but I do think that we need to be cognizant and approach this competently in a way that serves for the betterment of our community and the people who are here. 

I would say that that’s essentially what kind of spurred me onto this is, I just want to see…I don’t really like the friction around things that there really shouldn’t be friction. Like I said earlier, we all have a common goal here. Ultimately we just want this to be a great place to live, and so figuring that out together is the only way that we’ll actually see that through.

What are some of the things, you know, that you think have seen friction that you feel like should have been relatively straightforward decisions?

I mean, our harbor improvement. 

I wasn’t here for that, but I’ve read all about it. What, in your opinion, could you tell me a little bit about how you thought that could have gone differently?

Well, if you go into our harbor master’s office there, you’ll see a pretty awesome looking plan for a harbor. 

A bigger [one]. 

Yeah, you should check it out. And things like a drive down dock and all these additional fingers and stalls for all these people who are trying to make a living out here, and as it stands currently, we have added maybe slips for six boats. So that’s something that I think, and I know that there’s reasons behind how it evolved and everything, but I think that there wasn’t much common ground there. I really think that the conversation and the decisions that were made should have … could have been made to the betterment of our harbor and to the benefit of all of the folks who use it, yeah, that’s that’s one that comes to mind.

I’m consistently struck by how contentious a lot of the conversations happen here, and how they can get to contention really fast. And in some ways, I always tell people. I think it’s kind of charming because I feel like you don’t fight for things that you don’t care about. I tell people all the time. This town has like a sibling relationship with itself, and then when it matters, you know, they band together. 

But I think it’s a different thing to be sitting in a position where you’re a decision-maker and people are that contentious with you. And I’m curious how you think you’ll manage sometimes being on the receiving end of a lot of vitriol. Other planning commission candidates specifically have told me that that was like one of the harder parts of being on the planning commission was just like getting cornered in the grocery store. You’re trying to have dinner or you’re just sort of out and about being you, and people are sort of coming at you and making the kind of focal point for conflict over something. Have have you thought about how you might manage that or how have you managed it as a person who grew up here?

I think it’s a good question. I’ll give you a quick little story. I had a mentor who, when I became chief engineer on a ship, he told me, “Zeke, every day when you get up you must put on your Teflon jacket. You can’t let things stick to you. You learn, you acknowledge if there’s fault, and you move on with that new tool in your toolbox.” And yeah, I think as far as potential vitriol, as you put it, in my interactions with people, well: “Why? I want a good explanation for what I said or I decided that they don’t like, and give me your opinion.” I really think that a lot of times people just need to be heard, and I think that if or when I’m ever in a situation like that, yeah, I’ll listen. I think that’s what you have to do as a person on an elected body.  It’s just a part of the game. There’s no avoiding it. You can’t appease everyone with every decision you ever make. We’re all different. We all have different desires. So, at some point. Someone you may have even elected will decide something that you disagree with. So, yeah, that’s how I intend to handle that.

There’s a question that kind of goes hand in hand with that, which is you mentioned how important it is to listen to people’s public testimony on things, particularly when you’re making a decision that you know maybe requires a little bit of subjectivity, how do you go about finding people? Are you chatting with all your neighbors at Chilkat Lake, or where do you picture yourself going to hear from those constituents?

Well, I think that it would depend on what the issue is at hand, and who you would reach out to. Growing up here, I have a pretty good network in town, and so if there’s something I need to know more about, well, then I if I don’t know who to who to ask, or I know who knows who to ask. I think that it’s work to find this public opinion outside of an actual survey or anything that’s actually officially presented, but that’s the difference between someone who’s putting the effort in and someone who isn’t. You need to be willing and not just go to the people who you think will agree with how you’re viewing it. You need to ask the people who you may expect to be against the decision that you’re thinking you’ll make. So, that is a good question, and I’m sure if if elected, I’ll have a group of people who will be able to assist with finding these folks or assist me with proper methods of seeking public input.

I suppose one other thing that I’ve been struck by in this town is how partisan things can get. And you mentioned that sort of the planning commission decision making needs to be pretty apolitical. But do you also feel like it needs to be nonpartisan or have you been sort of aware of that conflict in this town for most of your life, and how do you kind of manage that?

Yeah, I mean, like I said earlier, as a planning commissioner if you’re being political, in my opinion, you’re doing a bad job. You should be, as I said, a human calculator. You’ve got your baseline: “Is it legal? Is it up to borough code?” And then you’ve got –  where any kind of subjectivity can guide your decision – you’ve got the comprehensive plan to basically vet, make sure that this decision and or this proposal is in line with what’s been approved to be our community’s vision, and then, as we just discussed, seek that public input. So, I don’t really see a place for any kind of partisanship in those three essential facets right there, and I think that a planning commissioner with an agenda is one that’s probably not going to be very effective, or or will represent their constituents effectively.

Okay, and I’m you mentioned also sort of thinking about how the planning commission makes decisions that are going to impact, you know, people your age for decades to come. Do you have a vision for what you’d like to see in the Chilkat Valley, or how you’d like to see the Chilkat Valley develop, particularly in the land use arena?

Yeah, I mean, I think as as I’m getting more into this, there’s definitely a lot of opinions on what what that should look like, and there’s got to be a happy medium somewhere there. 

Between what? 

I guess between having zero economy and a spaceport here …

A spaceport!

Yeah,  ultimately, I think that we have a problem here. We don’t have very many young people in this town. Of my graduating class of 26, there are five of us still here. I would I would like to see more young people stick around, and for that to be the case, there needs to be opportunity for them. So, what that opportunity may be? Well, if you create an atmosphere that can invite entrepreneurship or or something. If you basically present an environment that encourages, you know, that basically encourages business growth. It’s not like right off the bat I’m saying, yeah, just yes, everything ‘yes this, yes that.” 

It’s like, well, if you have an environment that encourages someone to start up a woodworking business or a boat building shop or something like that. Then, of course, before they get started, we have our checks and balances in town. You know, [it] need to go through our – depending on what they’re doing to the land –  planning commission up to the assembly level. So it’s not like you can just open the gates, but as long as we have a playing ground for these folks to pitch these ideas, and we encourage some type of economy here, then I see possibilities there. And at this point, we have tons, we have amazing small business owners in this town who are doing great things. 

But I think foot traffic is down in some regards, and and beyond that, what happens once fall hits. There’s not much going on here. So how do we have something that’s going to last through the winter? How is there going to be something to keep people around and maybe more just full-time residents here. And I don’t have the answer for that right now, Rashah. 

I think that as I get more involved, and whether or not I get elected here, I still want to become. I do want to continue to think, and my thoughts will always evolve on the subject. I think you need to be flexible, and new opportunities may present themselves. And as long as you’re willing to evaluate all of those opportunities, and not just presenting this, as long as you’re not just saying no to everything, well, there’s a lot of possibility.  So, so yeah, I don’t have the answer. I don’t know exactly what will be perfect for this community, but there’s got to be something there. 

That sort of stimulates the economy? 

Yeah, something that’ll keep our Haines High School graduates here in town. I really loved our [vocational education] program and I know a lot of people who still utilize those skills that they developed in that VocEd program. I think that skilled trades are essential. I mean, I think there’s tons of opportunity there. They’re high-paying jobs and as long as we continue to promote folks in the skilled trades in this community, I think that that’s a good basis. I mean, who doesn’t want capable people around, right? So I think that that’s something important and something that we definitely shouldn’t lose sight of. 

You mentioned that development has to be somewhere on a spectrum between none at all and a spaceport. I’m not sure why you picked a spaceport. I’d be super into space. Conversation for another day, but you know,  what does responsible development look like to you? How do you think you would get to that?

Well, I think that I would encourage initiatives that I see staying power in. Something that is both feasible from a current infrastructure standpoint and also produces something that could be deemed –  I don’t want to say tangible – but something that… I’m currently in the tourism industry, right? That’s my job, and I think that from a tourism standpoint it’s great. Especially the the small ships. These small ships have a lot of –  your per passenger money into the community is far greater with these small ships, and and they are presenting this business model that is all about teaching people about the communities and about natural history and local history about … basically how we subsist. I mean we have local presenters come aboard, etc. I’m kind of getting off track here, but I think that it’s important to have operators here that value what we have here, and beyond that what I view as sustainable is economic development. 

The big thing is staying power here. We need to have something that someone’s kid or their grandkid could do, and there are many ways to go about that. Of course I’m very pro-commercial fishing. I have been a commercial fisherman. 

I’ve fished on a few bodies here in towns, boats, and on a boat, boats elsewhere in Southeast Alaska, and I see that as like an amazing renewable resource here, and I also think that there is opportunity in, I mean, I already touched on it, but in the skilled trades. I think it’s so cool what some of these small communities around Southeast Alaska and in Southcentral Alaska are doing with these boat building outfits. They’re building these beautiful aluminum boats. You know, one notable company is this company, Bay Weld. Why can’t we have a Lutak Weld or something like that here? it’s really cool. They’re high-paying jobs. There’s some portion of the service industry there where you have office jobs for folks who want to work accounting, but you also have this opportunity to start at the K-12 level, make these amazing welders right out of high school, which we do have in town here. Some folks who went through the Haines High School [Vocational Ed] program and are very talented. So, there is the capacity there, and I see something that’s ground up as something that’s sustainable. 

You’re gonna have people who are already right off the bat invested in their community, and then their kids will be right off the bat invested in this community and so I think that the way that we build a strong foundation here is we have just this complete buy-in into some type of business or industry that is it touches on all those different possible [and] skill sets. 

Okay. There was one issue that came up this last year that for me really typified what a planning commission member has to deal with, and that was the issue of these like 5g towers, and it seemed like there was sort of like bipartisan teaming up for or against it. It seemed like it sort of transcended political lines, and it also seemed like it touched on a lot of things that are important to people. What can you do with your own property? Use by right. What kind of permit does this need? And I’m just curious when you’re approached with a big sort of Gordy and not thorny mess of a thing like that, how do you see yourself navigating that conversation, and how would you approach it?

Well you eat an elephant one bite at a time, right? You got to start somewhere, and where I’d start is compliance with code, and obviously with the example you provided, that wasn’t the end all be all for that. 

Right, there were two different kinds of possible permits. 

Right and then again, what’s step two? All right. Conformity with the comprehensive plan, and then again in this case that didn’t really answer the question there. So then, yeah, I would seek public input, and with something so divisive, It’s the the big thing here is I don’t want my if if there is a decision to be made that is so divisive and so what what turned out to be quite challenging I think you need to rest on those three things, and then ultimately you need to make a decision that you feel is best for the community, but most importantly the people directly impacted.  I mean there definitely will be some quagmires, that is always the case. That’s why we have a group of people who we – as a community–  trust to decipher and potentially make unpopular decisions. 

I think there’s something similar that’s probably going to happen with this conversation about rezoning in the Upper Valley. Which, as a person who lives in the Upper Valley, I’m sure you have had conversations. I know I’m also there, so I’ve had a lot of conversations with folks who sort of fall on a lot of parts of the spectrum of what they’d like to see happen there, and is that a conversation that you’re interested in tackling if you get elected?

Yeah, I mean it is. I think, first and foremost, we need to talk to the people most impacted. People like you, people like me, people like … any other folks out there around the Mosquito Lake area. And see what their thoughts are on it. What benefit do they see from it? And start ther in any big change. We need to be … first and foremost, we need to ask the why. Why are we doing this? What improvement do we see here? And then also the how. Is this going to add a lot of bureaucratic burden to our borough office? So, there are a lot of questions to be answered, and and so before I can give you like a “yay” or a “nay” on this, you need to gather the facts, and at this point we’re still in infancy here on what this may become.

I heard from some people who were the first elected crop of planning commission members that when they joined the planning commission or when they ran for the planning commission, they did it with this thought in their minds that they were coming in to help fix something. Or I don’t really want to put words in their mouths, but when they ran again, they told me one of the big things – and I heard this from multiple people – one of the big things that they learned was like staff are just like doing their best, and and I think in this town there’s this perception sometimes that like borough staff are, you know, that they aren’t necessarily doing their best. Or this is a town that seems to love to beef with its staff. And I’m curious if you’ve spent any time with any of the staff, or what your thoughts are on like how you might manage your relationship with city administration as you are in this elected position, tapping them for their knowledge about a thing. 

Right. No, I mean, I’m definitely not afraid to ask questions of our borough staff, and I mean, they’re, they are they’re public servants. Its their whole job, and so there’s a sense of appreciation for what they do. I think it’s important that we avoid an “us versus them” and focus more on an “us versus the problem.” I do see where you’re coming from there, and I mean, I have every intention to collaborate as much as is required and and remain civil. I think that sometimes things get a little out of hand, and … I get it. When people are passionate about a problem, they tend to get fiery. Passion is good to a certain degree. But you need to rein it in because at some point it can become quite blinding.

Is there anything I miss that you want to make sure people know about you, or that you are excited to do if you get elected to this office?

Yeah, I mean I’m excited to be forward thinking. I have every intention to live the rest of my life in this community, and so my goal is to make decisions that’ll be for the betterment of the people that I care about, and as well as the rest of the community at large. So, yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to run for this commission, and if all goes well, I’ll be all ears and have an open mind to any thoughts or or passions that people may present to me. Thanks for putting this on, Rashah. 

Thanks so much for coming in, Zeke. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely.

The post Watch: An interview with Zeke Frank, candidate for planning commission appeared first on Chilkat Valley News.

Rashah McChesney: Nick Szatkowski, thank you so much for joining me here in the KHNS studios. I really appreciate it. 

Nick Szatkowski: I’m happy to be here. Thank you for for doing this. I think it’s a good service for the community.

Yeah, it’s a lot of things at once. Also, did you tell me you used to be the news director here, so people are hearing you for the first time?

 I was the news reporter, and for some time, I was the only news reporter. So that made me the news director at that time, but I wasn’t like an official position. I wasn’t ranked above any other person in that role. But yeah, I did some reporting though. 

Some day, I’m going to get every former journalist in this town to do an April Fool’s edition of the CVN with me. 

It may not fit in one edition.

Shall we jump right in? I’ve got a whole list of questions, and I’ll leave a little bit at the end for you to tell me anything I’ve missed. I’m so curious. Since I got here in 2024, the planning commission-that was the first year they were an elected body, or they’d become an elected body-and I’m curious in your time watching the difference between an appointed planning commission and an elected planning commission, if you think the fact that it’s an elected body now has changed the way that land use is being regulated in the borough,

I think so, but I don’t have a super strong opinion about that exact comparison in a way that could be corroborated or shown evidence for at this time. I mean, I definitely think it’s better. There’s no question that the role does have some importance in the community. It’s appropriate that the community can select who those people are. So I do think that that’s fair, and I do think that not using that system previously did sometimes lead to some problems. So, it doesn’t mean you can’t still have problems in the current system. Of course, you can, but I do think it’s more fair and it’s more democratic.

Okay, so you’re in favor of an elected planning commission. I bring it up because I thought it was a really interesting move for the community to make, and in some other committees I’ve covered in the state that have struggled a little bit with land use regulation and sometimes boards being weighted in favor of one industry or the other, this seemed like kind of a novel potential solution to that problem. But what I haven’t really seen from people is whether the upsides of having it elected are outweighing the downsides, or how if the system is shifting, what change are you seeing over time?

Well, you know the downside of it to me, you know, I don’t. I have not studied game theory, but I understand. I think the basic concept that you look at “what are the pro and pros and cons of this scenario? What are the pros and cons of this scenario, and how do they add up?” So, what is the negative side of having elected commissioners? I think that it’s a little extra effort.

It’s a little bit of a drag having extra people have to go on like me sitting here and taking up time. So you know it’s a small burden, but it seems like a very minor problem to have to bear. The positive side is that the people that are there making those decisions, which do have some bearing on our lives, are people chosen by the larger community. So I think that benefit far outweighs the potential burden of a little extra time taken up during election season. Maybe there’s some other. If there’s some other downside or burden, then I’d be happy to learn about it.

Well, it’s interesting to me both as a person who moved to this community as it was happening, but also we have that ballot initiative, basic that question on the ballot asking if we should go back revert to a an appointed planning commission instead of an elected one, and I was sort of curious how people were landing on that issue and if they preferred one or the other. But one thing that I’ve heard from people who aren’t supportive of it is that they feel like it means there’s less industry expertise or just less expertise in general in irrelevant expertise. to planning on the planning commission when you elect folks. 

Well,I would say just in response to that, I’m not trying to make. I’m just only responding to what you’re saying. I’m not trying to make a precise description of any individual on the commission. But if there’s expertise needed, the public can vote for that expertise. But having the entire community choose which people with which expertise are appropriate makes a lot more sense. The reality is, planning involves all land uses in the borough. It is not specifically, do you know how to build a highway. It’s not just industrial resource extraction or industrial road building. That’s not the only thing the planning commission has responsibility for. You need people who understand a lot of other things besides that. And so, if it’s too heavily weighted toward people whose only area of expertise is heavy industry. You’re not going to get a well-balanced commission. What that you know, I’m not trying to claim what the perfect balance is. I want the community to decide, and they’ll pick the people that they feel match that best. But people need a lot of different areas of understanding to make good land use decisions.

Okay, one thing that I’ve noticed is that there is sometimes some tension between opinions that the planning commission gives and decisions that the assembly ends up making at the end, or sometimes permits get decided and then sent back. There have been a number of these back and forth [situations] between the two bodies since just in the short time since I got here, and I’m curious if you were elected, like what you would do to deepen collaboration and communication between those two bodies.

Yeah, I mean, I will just try to be as open and communicative with the other bodies as possible. I don’t have, like somehow the golden solution [or] what will solve that issue, but it does seem like there’s a problem right now, and that the two bodies don’t seem to have a very good working relationship.

I don’t think the planning commission seems to have a lot of control over that, but it does seem that the assembly doesn’t. Yeah, I don’t know. Again, I would veer away from trying to make any specific criticism. I don’t want to… I’m not because I can’t tell you a specific event that this person said this or did that. 

The general sense I get of it is that the planning commission is not getting a large amount of respect from either the borough assembly or the borough administration currently, and that’s a dysfunctional arrangement. And this shouldn’t be that way. They should all work together to cooperate to have a good running municipality. 

A poorly running municipality is actually financially inefficient. It doesn’t operate as effectively, and that means our dollars are getting lost because we’re wasting time through decisions that then don’t go forward. You have staff time that isn’t resulting in a you know a result because there’s back and forth or pulling back or blocking each other or all this stuff and it just doesn’t work very well and it burdens up the whole community every every aspect of it you know every doesn’t matter what your political leaning is having a municipal government that doesn’t actually function efficiently is just bad economics

I suppose that that question to me specifically was born from the fact that the borough has been sued several times since I got here, or maybe not several, a handful of times relative to not being sued at all. It has been sued, and you and another candidate for the planning commission have been involved in lawsuits with the borough, and to me, what that says is that there’s some part of the process for people that’s not working. I think you could litigate all day what part of the process is, but but as an outsider, without getting into the weeds of you know those lawsuits, I’m mostly curious what you think you could bring to the planning commission that could help change situations that end up in lawsuits or where people feel like they have no other recourse but to go to court because they’re kind of bouncing between two bodies. 

Well, so one of the issues, and I don’t know if this is exactly what your question is, but it seems to somehow be relevant between the different questions you’ve asked. I think formerly the appointed commission and the individuals that were appointed to those seats often had an extremely poor understanding of borough law. I can’t tell you the number of times that I attended borough meetings and would read the actual wording of the law to make sure that they were aware, because sometimes it seemed like they’re, from their discourse, they did not seem to understand it. I would make the law completely clear, and they would make a vote blatantly in violation of that. Now, of course, me saying that in public, someone’s going to get upset, but they’re going to have to face that, and I’ve got evidence to prove it. Like it’s not, it’s not like really that. It’s not, it’s not. It shouldn’t even be a controversial idea because it’s happened, and it was egregious. Like there were multiple people who were appointed to those positions, and they repeatedly made decisions that were clearly in violation not just the general spirit of the law, but the outright literal letter of the law as it was written. It was seemingly that they didn’t think they had to follow that if it meant if that’s what they had to do to get the decision they wanted. So I don’t want to see that happen anymore. If the community actually feels there’s some aspect of the law as written that’s inappropriate for us, then there’s a procedure for changing the borough code. But the commissioners do not have the authority to just abandon that if they want to, you know, make a decision in a certain direction.

I’m really glad that you brought up borough code. Because this has been something that’s come up in almost every single planning commissioner interview that I’ve done so far, is this idea of like people wanting to get on the planning commission and follow the letter of the code, and what I’ve heard from people who’ve been on the commission, either elected or appointed is that what they found is that it’s not always that simple. Sometimes it’s as simple as reading a sentence and saying, “Oh, yep, this is clear. “This shall means shall and may means may,” and that’s what we do. But I think there’s some other decisions that require a little bit of subjectivity on the part of a planning commissioner, either because the code’s incomplete, or in the last year we’ve run into a situation where you know we didn’t really have a permit that applied to the situation that was coming up, or maybe it should have been applied for a different permit. And so I think that there is both knowing and learning the code, and then I think there’s what do you do when the code stops and you have to make a decision past that? How do you think you would handle that situation?

I mean, obviously it’s a hypothetical, so I can’t give you… You know, we’d have to see about the exact situation when it occurred. But maybe what would be helpful here is I could give you a bit of background about myself and what I bring to making a decision on this. So I grew up in a very small town. I didn’t grow up in Alaska, but I grew up in a place on the Canadian border down south. That’s one of the more remote places in the entire Lower 48. There’s 300 people in a town, and there’s no city to drive to anywhere. And back then, like in the 1970s, there’s no internet. We couldn’t even get radio from anywhere, let alone television. It was a very different thing. 

What town is this? 

It’s called Robbinston, Maine, northeastern Maine. It’s right on the Canadian border. It’s Passamaquoddy territory, Passamaquoddy people, and you know it’s beautiful, beautiful land, beautiful forest, lakes, a lot of lakes. Similar climate to here. It’s transitional between the temperate zone and the boreal zone, like here. 

But anyway, the point is, it’s a very small town, and the culture of small towns operating has been on going on there for hundreds of years.

Here, I feel like often people… it’s like we’re in a vacuum. There’s just like a void around us, and we don’t know what to do, and they’re just making it up from scratch. A lot of people, I think, live here, have come from places that were maybe cities or very different kinds of communities, and so they have an image of what they think a small town would be, but they haven’t necessarily experienced it very much. So I grew up in this very small town, very poor, single mom, six kids. That place where I grew up-it’s got poverty in a way that no people. I don’t think anyone around here is familiar with, honestly, because we certainly have poverty here, and that’s part of the population that I’m very concerned about helping. But even here, there’s also a lot of wealth in this town that you see all around you, and it was not like that where I grew up. So you want to know what it’s like-a place that doesn’t have a strong functioning economy that provides jobs for people. I already know what that’s like. I’ve seen what steps led to that, and one of them is excessive reliance on a single large industry, and it collapses, and the town collapses, and it’s really harsh. It’s not a wise course forward for the economy of any small town. 

But there’s also stuff about the procedure, how a town operates, like holding a valid town hall meeting. You can’t call it a town hall meeting if you just schedule a PR session for some private business to come and give you their spiel. That’s not called a town hall meeting. Town hall meetings should have an avenue for the public to get to discuss an issue, not cut off at three minutes. 

[You] get to actually discuss it, and doesn’t mean every assembly meeting is not the same thing as that. The assembly needs to get through their business, so you don’t want to bog that down with having people talk on and on and on, but there needs to be a role for something like a town meeting where people can really have, as citizens, still have their voices heard and recognized and and work through some issues. 

Just because someone gets elected to the assembly doesn’t mean they’re the only perspectives that need to sort out our issues. You know, I respect those people in those seats. It’s a lot of work to do, but it’s too much to expect that they can hold the decision-making power for everybody in the community for years. So there needs to be a lot of input from the public, and you know, at a lot of the assembly meetings, there are people who come and speak, but it’s usually a very small number of people, and it’s usually the same people every meeting. It’s not really representative of the community when it’s just the same half a dozen people that are doing the public comments at every meeting. 

So anyway, I feel like I had a perspective in seeing the way small towns operate… I call it a small town. It’s not even a town. Forests, really, just people living in the woods in different little areas and dirt roads. But anyway, I’m very familiar with that. 

At the same time, I also had the advantage of getting a full scholarship to college and getting a degree in political philosophy. And I have studied a lot about how governments operate and what’s the relationship with the population that they are ostensibly representing? And so, I think that with those two perspectives, if I’m looking at interpreting something about borough code for the planning commission, I’m gonna consider what does this mean for the everyday people?

Is this in the interests of everybody, or is it in the interests of a specific business owner? Not that that means it is inherently bad, but that shouldn’t be the predominant thing that you decided on. And at the same time, I’m going to reflect on what does this mean about the relationship in a more philosophical way. I’m going to think about the relationship between the community, the municipal government, and where are we going? What are we? Is this serving the interests? Are we helping us move forward in a constructive way? 

I’m curious what role you think the planning commission plays in helping the borough grow or stay stable.

I saw that question on the sheet, and I would my response to that initially is just, what do you mean the borough grow?

I suppose I don’t mean to expand. I mean help the borough evolve into whatever it’s evolving into, and maybe it should guide the borough. What role does the planning commission play in guiding the borough?

Yeah. Well, clearly, the planning commission’s role is more specifically oriented toward land use decisions. Obviously, specific kinds of permits, conditional use permits in particular, but other other decisions too that involve a lot to do with how people are using the land that’s within the municipality, the municipality I don’t think is going to grow. I don’t think that’s going to happen. 

There’s a notion many people think that economies can just grow indefinitely, and it’s actually just a physical falsehood. It’s not correct. That is, we do not live in an expanding earth. Everything on the earth is finite, and I know some people think, well, if we just get all the resources exploited, then we’ll keep growing our economy. And even if you did do that, it’s gonna stop growing at a certain point. 

That’s what I grew up with. Where I grew up in northern Maine, there’s no old growth forest anywhere. Almost all the land base is owned by private timber companies, paper companies, in fact, and they already logged everywhere across the entire state of Maine, basically, with a few tiny, tiny exceptions. And it’s not; it doesn’t make the economy keep growing. Actually, the economy hits a plateau and then it hits a downhill. 

So it’s I think wiser for everybody to look at how much can you grow, how much can you exploit, without damaging the … I don’t like comparing it to a financial situation, but like a bank account, it’s much smarter to use the interest that comes off it, and that could potentially continue on indefinitely into the future. If you take away the capital every year, you get less and less and less to earn your interest, and pretty soon you end up poor. Okay, so the same thing applies for a community, same thing applies for our relationship with the land. We have to be very careful about paying attention to what, how much surplus there is from the land that we can harvest and live from. And not everything, not all of obviously the entire economy of this area is not based only on resource extraction, some of it is, and some of that I think is pretty sustainable. But we still [have] to keep in mind what is the level that is sustainable because it doesn’t help the whole community to use more than that. There are lots of effects that start to accrue once you overutilize the resource base.

Okay, and so what I’m hearing from is maybe that there needs to be some kind of balance in different kinds of land uses, so that there isn’t one type that sort of extracts too much or or causes the borough to not have resources in the future that it needs.

I wouldn’t disagree with that. I don’t know if that is summing up what I said. 

Well, you got to correct me if I got too it wrong.  I think what I’m trying to loop it back around to is the context of that question, which is that I think. Everybody sort of joins the planning commission or wants to be on the planning commission for maybe their own private reasons or maybe because they want to be a public servant. But  I want to know what you think the role of the planning commission is as it comes to sort of helping the Haines Borough with what it’s going to look like 25 years from now, 50 years from now, 100 years from now.

Well, I’m excited. Whether it’s me or other people, I’m excited to have people on the planning commission that do have a vision of what a long-term sustainable community could actually look like. And in order to do that, you have to have people that actually understand ecology, right? That might sound shocking to some listeners. They might not understand that ecology itself is a scientific discipline that’s older than the combustion engine. It’s older than powered flight. It’s been around for a very long time. It’s an actual discipline of science, and it has to do with what are all the relationships between all aspects of the physical world, living and non-living, and including human beings. 

So, to not be well versed in those issues would just make you make poor decisions if you don’t know what kinds of impacts you’re going to have, whether it’s on biological, you know, factors or other physical things. “You’re eating into the side of a mountainside. Is it going to relate to having a landslide or collapse or affecting groundwater or other things?

[It] is just nonsense to think that you wouldn’t think that it’s smarter to somehow not be aware of those things. We can’t be aware of every single detail, but the more we can be aware of that, the better. The same thing applies with interpersonal, interhuman dynamics. If somebody’s thinking something is creating wealth, is it… is it helping everybody? Who’s it the wealth for? 

And so, a sustainable community means it’s got to be lifting everyone together up along the way and helping. And if some park gets far ahead, what do you do? If you’re hiking on a trail, you wait to make sure the other people are coming along with you. You don’t just take off and say,  “I’m the best. I’m the first. Yay! At least you might do that, but you’re not probably going to have a lot of hiking partners for very long. So, I think it’s common sense. If we think we can create some wealth, that that could be great. But let’s make. What are we going to do to make sure that is is available also to the other parts of the community who maybe aren’t the big landowners, aren’t the big, you know, owning big, you know, profit for profit businesses or whatever? You didn’t ask about housing, but I think that that’s relevant in that area as well.

It is. That actually plays right into my next question: What does responsible development look like to you?

Yeah, yeah. So, and I, I mean, I think what I had just said addresses that question to a large degree, but I do think that housing is one of the resources that isn’t distributed very equally around the community right now, and I feel like for quite a few years I’ve been watching decision makers in the borough do things or make decisions that seem like they think they’re addressing the housing issues, the shortage of of low income or you know low cost housing. They seem to think they’re addressing that by making decisions to benefit the largest landowners.

That’s the exact opposite…that’s not how you do that. You don’t just make it really profitable for a huge developer to make lots of like for-profit developments. That’s not you know you go to any place that actually has low-income housing. That’s not how they do it, right? And so I can understand. I was even willing to be like, hmm, that doesn’t seem right, but maybe I’m missing something. I’ll watch for a little while. I’ll see what happens. And I have watched, and it doesn’t seem like it’s resulted in an increase in low-income housing available to the community. We still have the same problem, but there’s just more. There’s some subdivisions, but it still costs a lot of money to buy into those subdivisions. It’s not really addressing that issue. 

So I don’t know why people, you know, maybe it has to do with like growing up in the 1980s and the talk of like trickle down. I didn’t like that. I didn’t like getting trickled down on, and I don’t know anybody who did like it. Honestly, it again, it’s one of those things that sounds like it in theory. Maybe that could work, but watch what actually happens. You benefit the richest people. Is that the best way to help the poorest people? I mean, it doesn’t seem intuitively like it would be correct. Then you watch, observe, and over time you say, “Oh, indeed, it’s not. It’s not correct. It does not work. Actually, I’m not saying that no rich person has ever helped other people. Sometimes they do. I’ve known some very, very wonderful, very generous, rich people, or people who have resources, whatever you want to say, call it. But it’s not; it’s clearly not the best way to help disadvantaged people. Some people with wealth sometimes spread that around, but it is not universal, and they’re not required by law. To do so, and the idea that that’s somehow more egalitarian than actually just spreading it around to everybody just doesn’t. It’s just sort of, I think, it’s nonsense.

Are there other parts of the Chilkat Valley or just sort of the Haines Borough in general where you see a need for different kinds of development? I mean, you’ve just brought up affordable housing. I think you’ve articulated pretty well what that need is. But are there other things that the planning commission would maybe have a role in recommending that you see a real need for?

Well, yes, probably. 

Do you want to articulate any of this?  That’s kind of putting you on the spot. I’m just curious if you sort of see a gap in … you mentioned that there was some that you saw a fair amount of poverty here, and so I’m curious when I think of poverty, I usually think of low income housing. I also tend to think of, you know, availability of food and food resources. And there’s a lot of people in the valley kind of trying to address food availability. So I’m curious if there are some other needs that you see that you’d like to sort of tackle. 

I do think the mental health services would be really valuable to get a stronger foundation here. I know there is counseling and there are some services available, but I think that that’s all small communities everywhere. It’s a really big need that usually gets proportionally way less support and funding because it’s a small community, but that doesn’t mean there’s proportionally less of that issue there. So I think that’s something that could really make a difference. I think honestly, I think a lot of things that are perceived as being law enforcement or criminal issues often have at least partially a role with a mental health issue, and I don’t want that to be misconstrued. I’m not in any way saying people with a mental health challenge are inherently going to do anything criminal, or that criminals are necessarily people with mental health issues. But sometimes there is a way that something could get resolved through services and therapy and other things. And if you have to have the police be the one to come and pick somebody up because they’re acting, you know, in their aberrant way or something like that, that’s not very helpful for that person. You know, we don’t have any facility for a person with a mental health issue. They have to go to jail, right? Do you think that’s good for their mental health? Like, so I think that’s an issue that, just out of you know, I mean, I don’t I don’t have any big answer for things like that, but I think if people are feel compassion, if they want to things to be helpful for others rather than just trying to get for yourself, and you just approach any issue with that mentality, hopefully we would make kind decisions.

On a totally different note, do you support the development and expansion of the local 5G cellular network?

I feel like I would need to learn first off more information about, like, show me show me that there’s a need. I want somebody to and I and not I don’t want it to be. What’s the need for that 5G for us here? What the purpose of that? And I don’t want to have the case for it made by the company that’s going to make a profit out of doing it. So other people need to make it clear. And again, that same concept, whether it’s called game theory or whatever it is, what is the pro and what is the con? Right. Like, I’m not convinced there’s a need for 5G here, and I also feel like there are health issues that are in my mind not resolved around it. 

I’m not trying to assert any specific thing. I don’t know that much about it, honestly. I do know that electromagnetic frequency can be very damaging in certain situations. Then I don’t know if that applies in this kind of tower and this kind of thing or not. I don’t know what proximity, or where it is going to be. Different populations can be more vulnerable than others. So I feel like there’s a bunch of that kind of stuff that should be made more clear before we have any opinion about that, or before I do anyway. 

It’s one of many topics that’s been in front of the planning commission this year, but that one’s kind of interesting to me because it seems like it sort of gets a lot of threads in this community. Like you know, people will say if something satisfies the conditions of the permit, you have to give it the permit, and then other people will come and say, “Okay, but my viewshed. If you put one of those in my neighbor’s backyard, sure, that’s allowed in my neighbor’s backyard. But you know, am I safe? Am my children safe? 

It seems like there’s a sort of lot of overlapping values.” Issues involved in a piece of infrastructure that could otherwise be just a cut and dry permit, and so I guess I’m I’m curious when you consider it from that perspective, if you were to become an elected planning commission member, how you kind of balance the the rights of a private landowner to do what they want on their own property, particularly in an area that’s like use by right, because of the zoning that’s where it is versus what the neighbors need. Like, how would you make that decision for yourself?

Yeah, I mean, I would have to, I’d have to research whatever the issue would be extensively because I’m not aware of anything right now in borough code that would clarify that. If you’re saying it’s a situation where it’s a use by right, I don’t think the planning commission has any role in making a decision about that action. So I don’t think that it would even come before the [planning commission], as far as I can understand. And so if there is some other avenue or some other way that can be addressed. Is there a clause anywhere in the borough code that says no matter how legal an action is, if it causes some other kinds of consequence in some way, whatever that would be, people decide, then the otherwise legal action will not be allowed. I don’t. I’ve never heard of anything like that in borough code. Any kind of across the board thing that says, “Oh, nobody’s viewshed, or no, you know, it does seem like impacting people’s health with electromagnetic frequencies against their will. That seems like it should be something that should not be allowed. 

But how do you determine that? I don’t know. So I think we need a lot more technical information first.

Is there anything that I haven’t asked you about that you think is important, or you know, some reason that you’re running that you want to articulate?

You must want to talk about the Lutak Dock, don’t you? I’m just joking.

I’ve been letting people bring that one up, I feel like I don’t need to talk about it. Honestly, if you feel called to by all means, no, I don’t. I mean, there’s obviously issues there that could be talked about, but I don’t think it’s necessary to get into it for this. I don’t think it’s for one thing. The planning commission, as far as you know, any time in the upcoming year or two, I don’t see any they’re going to have any role in that anyway, so it’s not really relevant. Yeah, I don’t. I would just, I guess, repeat if I didn’t say it clearly enough before that what I what I’m looking forward to is seeing a planning commission that has a wide range of expertise with people who do understand a lot of different dynamics about how communities operate, economic issues, ecological issues, social and community issues, and in fact, actually knowing the specific details of how to do an industrial development is actually less important. That’s not the role of the planning commission to be the technical engineer of that project. We can find out the details as necessary.

I feel like I’d like to see a planning commission, whether it includes me or not, that has a group of people that have expertise and experience and personal experience. In a wide range of issues that are important for planning, so that means social issues, cultural issues, ecological issues, economic issues are all necessary to understand to make appropriate decisions. And as I said before, to some degree, we need to understand the technical side of some industrial activities, but you don’t have to be an industrial engineer in order to make forward-looking decisions for the benefit of your community.

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